I googled for a link, but English link there were none (i’m in a rush, so I didn’t go through the entire listing)
Thanks to MadPriest, we have:
WELL, UP YOURS THEN
A Spanish court has ordered Catholic officials in Valencia to remove a man
I googled for a link, but English link there were none (i’m in a rush, so I didn’t go through the entire listing)
Thanks to MadPriest, we have:
WELL, UP YOURS THEN
A Spanish court has ordered Catholic officials in Valencia to remove a man
You know, I haven’t looked in a while, but it seems real hard to get the Catholic Church to not count you among their numbers. I imagine that since both our records are probably in American churches, and religion is more important than human rights in this country, there’s probably not a lot of hope in American courts. Since the Vatican is its own nation, not much hope there either.
But maybe suing the church to have the records removed would qualify as a large enough heretical violation for real excommunication.
Unsurprisingly, I am in agreement with the RC Church here (on the records issue, not the same-sex marriage issue). What is accomplished by removing a historical record? Expunging the record does not make one more or less Catholic. I see no good coming of altering historical documents.
And the Spanish courts should have no more jurisdiction over Church records than they do over foreign embassy records. I know it’s not political principle in Spain the way it is in the U.S., but I believe there should always be strict separation of Church and State.
Well, I’m already excommunicated, as I’ve become an Anglican. The problem is that I have no proof of that. However, I’m certain I’m not counted in the numbers of the followers of the Scarlet Whore of Babylon here in the UK as I’ve only once attended a RC mass here (and that was under duress and for a scientific purpose: I was a Mystery Worshipper that weekend).
I believe that suing your bishop in the civil courts does count as something that gets you excommunicated (at least, it did in the old Code of Canon Law that I learned when I was in seminary). I will do some more research and report back at some future time…
I agree with you. I could see the civil courts compelling the church to also record a renunciation of the baptism by the individual concerned, or of anyone else who doesn’t want to continue with a decision made long ago, by their parents. But no good can come of tampering with historical documents. That way lies the airbrushing of photos of soviet leaders atop Lenin’s tomb, to “disappear” people no longer in favour.
revisit the record and re-interpret history if you want, but changing (no, falsifying) records of what actually happened is dangerous and reprehensible.
And the Spanish courts should have no more jurisdiction over Church records than they do over foreign embassy records. I know it’s not political principle in Spain the way it is in the U.S., but I believe there should always be strict separation of Church and State.
The Roman Catholic Church in Spain doesn’t feel that there should be any such separation of Church and State. They make sure that the public schools are tied to the Church, they grouse when civil marriages for same-sex couples are legalised, they want money from the Government to keep up their churches and other properties. But when the Government wants to regulate them, they get all het up.
A lot of this comes from the fact that the Church was one of Francisco Franco’s (he’s still dead!) main supporters, and governments since Franco died resented that.
I do not know whether one can request excommunication if one hasn’t actually done anything for which one could be excommunicated. After reading the Wikipedia article, I don’t believe you can.
In any case, he wants to erase the fact that he was ever baptised. Excommunication doesn’t erase your baptism, it just says that you’ve been a very very bad boy and thus have to go to Mass but can’t receive communion.
I hope to hear more about this very interesting case.